THIS IS DET. BRYN RIDGE OF THE WEST MEMPHIS POLICE DEPARTMENT
CURRENTLY IN THE MONROE CO POLICE DEPARTMENT IN CLARENDON,
ARKANSAS. TODAY’S DATE 07-21-93 THE TIME IS 3:27 P M. PRESENT IN THE
ROOM WITH JOHN FOGLEMAN AND JESSE ANDREW HURST. JESSE YOUR BIRTH
DATE IS [OMITTED]-73 YOU CURRENTLY HAVE A ADDRESS OF P.O. BOX 823,
BRINKLEY, IS THAT CORRECT?
JESSE: YES
RIDGE: ALRIGHT, DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS CONVERSATION IS BEING TAPED?
JESSE: YES
RIDGE: AND IS THAT OKAY WITH YOU?
JESSE: YES
RIDGE: WE’VE HERE TODAY BECAUSE IT HAS COME TO OUR ATTENTION THAT
YOU HAVE BEEN IN SOME CONVERSATION WITH A DAMIEN ECHOLS, IS THAT
CORRECT?
JESSE: YES
RIDGE: IS THAT THE PERSON WHO IS IN THE CELL WITH YOU?
JESSE: YES
RIDGE: OKAY, IS THAT THE NAME HE GOES BY?
JESSE: YES
RIDGE: OKAY, UH, BASICALLY JUST START OUT WITH WHEN HE STARTED
TALKING TO YOU AND WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT?
JESSE: HE WOULD ALWAYS LIKE, I’D SAY YOU, YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED
DON’T YOU, YOU JUST SAYING YOU DON’T, HE WOULD ALWAYS SAY NO I DON’T
KNOW WHAT HAPPENED, I WASN’T THERE, THEN ONE NIGHT WE GOT TO
TALKING IN MY CELL AND I SAID YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED DON’T YOU?
AND HE SAID YES I KNOW AND WE GOT TO TALKING HE TOLD ME THAT
RIDGE: ALRIGHT, YOUR SAYING HE, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT DAMIEN?
JESSE: DAMIEN, RIGHT, HE SAID HIM AND JASON WERE IN THE WOODS AND THAT
HE SAW JASON KILL ONE OF THE BOYS AND HE SAW THIS BOYS, ONE OF THE
BOYS STEPFATHERS, HE HAD LONG BLONDE HAIR IN A PONYTAIL, HE SAID UH,
HE SAW HIM KILL THE OTHER TWO BOYS, AND THAT HE JUST, HE SAID HE HE
THERE WAS
PAGE 1
002674
JESSE: (CON’T) NO WAY THEY COULD PROVE THAT HE WAS THERE, BECAUSE HE
STOOD BACK AT A DISTANCE, AND THEY COULDN’T FIND IS FEET PRINTS.
RIDGE: OKAY, NOW YOU SAID THAT THEY COULDN’T FIND OUT HE WAS THERE
BECAUSE HE STOOD BACK, WHO ARE WE TALKING ABOUT ON HE?
JESSE: THE POLICE WHEN THEY TAKE, WILL THEY COULDN’T PROVE THAT
DAMIEN WAS THERE.
RIDGE: WILL WHAT I’M SAYING IS, HE’S TALKING ABOUT HIS SELF?
JESSE: RIGHT
RIDGE: OKAY, OKAY, GO AHEAD
JESSE: HE SAID THAT THEY COULDN’T PROVE THAT HE WAS THERE SPEAKING OF
DAMIEN, BECAUSE HE WAS STANDING AT A DISTANCE AND THEY DIDN’T TAKE,
THEY DIDN’T CHECK FOR FOOT PRINTS WHERE HE WAS STANDING, CAUSE THEY
HAD GOTTEN FEET PRINTS OF EVERY BODY ELSE THAT WAS THERE.
RIDGE: YOU MENTION THE STEPFATHER, DID WAS A NAME ASSOCIATED WITH
THAT STEPFATHER THAT YOU KNOW OF?
JESSE: LAST NAME, HE SAID, HE SID HE THOUGHT HIS LAST NAME WAS BRANCH
RIDGE: OKAY,
JESSE: I DON’T, I DON’T KNOW IF THAT’S TRUE ARE NOT BUT HE SAID HE
THOUGHT IT WAS BRANCH
RIDGE: ALRIGHT, DAMIEN WAS STANDING AWAY FROM WHAT WAS GOING ON?
HE WAS WATCHING WHAT WAS GOING ON?
JESSE: HUM UM (YES)
RIDGE: THIS IS WHAT HE IS TELLING YOU?
JESSE: (inaudible)
RIDGE: OKAY, DID HE SAY WHO ELSE WAS THERE?
JESSE: TODAY, SPEAKING OF TODAY, HE TOLD ME THAT JESSIE WAS THERE AND
HE WAS JUST HE WAS JUST STANDING THERE AND HE’S GETTING CHARGED THE
SOMETHING THAT DAMIEN GETTING CHARGED WITH 3 COUNTS OF CAPITAL
MURDER
RIDGE: OKAY
PAGE 2
02675s
JESSE: AND HE SAID HE HASN’T, DIDN’T EVEN DO ANYTHING HE WAS JUST
STANDING THERE
RIDGE: OKAY, ALRIGHT IN PARTICULAR TELL WHAT HE TOLD YOU HAPPENED
WITH THE BOYS?
JESSE: HE SAID THAT THE BOYS WERE TIED UP, AND UH, ONE, THE THE
SMALLEST BOY WAS, WAS SCREAMING WHEN THEY STARTED BEATING THE
OTHER BOY TO DEATH. WHEN JASON STARTED BEATING HIM TO DEATH. HE
SAID UH, THE YOUNGEST BOY WAS, THE SMALLEST BOY I MEAN WAS
SCREAMING SAYING NO NO DON’T DO THAT, NO YOU KNOW THEY, THEY BEAT
THE BOY TO DEATH, THEN HIS FATHER, ON OF THE BOYS STEPFATHERS KILLED
THE OTHER TWO BOYS THAT WERE SCREAMING, THEY WERE TIED UP AND THEY
JUST BEAT THEM TO DEATH LIKE THAT, WHILE THEY WERE STILL TIED UP
RIDGE: DID HE SAY HOW THEY WERE TIED OR WITH WHAT?
JESSE: HE SAID THEY WERE TIED UP WITH ROPE
RIDGE: OKAY,
JESSE: HE SAID THEY WERE TIED BACK TO BACK, I ASK HIM IF THAT HOW THEY
WERE TIED UP AND HE SAID YES. THEY WERE TIED BACK TO BACK
RIDGE: OKAY, SAID HE CUT ONE OF THE BOYS PENIS OFF, WHAT DID HE SAY HE
DID WITH THAT PENIS?
JESSE: HE DANGLED IT AROUND AND LAUGHED
RIDGE: ALRIGHT, WHO WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE DONE THAT?
JESSE: JASON
RIDGE: JASON
JESSE: JASON
RIDGE: AND DID HE SAY WHAT HE CUT WITH, WHO’S KNIFE OR WAS IT A KNIFE?
JESSE: HE NEVER SAID THAT, HE NEVER SAID WHAT THEY CUT IT WITH
RIDGE: OKAY, DID HE DESCRIBE THIS AREA WHERE THIS TOOK PLACE?
JESSE: HE SAID IT WAS, IT WAS OFF, IT WAS OFF OF A LONG ROAD OUT, IT WAS A
SECLUDED AREA MORE OR LESS IT WAS OFF AND IT WAS JUST A LONG ROAD
AND WOODS WERE DOWN AT, AT, THEY WERE DOWN AND THE STREET WAS UP
SO YOU KNOW HOW THE WATER RUNS OFF THE STREET INTO, INTO THE GUTTER
PAGE 3
002676
RIDGE: HUM UM (YES)
JESSE: IT WAS LIKE THAT AND THE WOODS WHERE DOWN AND HE TOLD HE
TOLD ME THAT SOME, HE HAD HEARD THAT SOMEONE DROVE BY AND SAW SIX
PEOPLE OUT IN THE WOODS WEARING RED ROBES, RED AND BLACK ROBES HE
SAID HE JUST LAUGHED AND SAID THAT WASN’T TRUE
RIDGE: DID HE SAY WHAT HE WAS WEARING? OR WHAT ANYBODY ELSE HAD
BEEN WEARING?
JESSE: HE TOLD ME HE COULDN’T EVEN REMEMBER WHAT HE WAS WEARING
THAT DAY
RIDGE: OKAY
JESSE: HE TOLD JAS, HE TOLD ME JASON WAS WEARING A BLACK TEE SHIRT
WITH A HARLEY-DAVIDSON SIGN ON THE BACK OF IT THE GOLD WINGS, HE SAID
THAT WHAT JASON WAS WEARING, HE NEVER MENTIONED ANYTHING ABOUT
JESSIE UNTIL TODAY
RIDGE: OKAY, UH, DID HE MENTION SEEING THE BOYS ANY WHERE ELSE?
JESSE: UH UM (NO)
RIDGE: ALRIGHT, DID HE MENTION HOW THE BOYS CAME TO BE WHERE THEY
WERE MURDER?
JESSE: HE NEVER TOLD ME THAT
RIDGE: OKAY, YOU MENTION A LITTLE WHILE AGO SOMETHING ABOUT
BICYCLES, A SKATEBOARD OR SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE?
JESSE: HE SAID THEY WERE RIDING TWO BIKES AND A SKATE BOARD
RIDGE: OKAY
JESSE: THAT’S WHAT HE TOLD ME, I DON’T KNOW IT TO BE TRUE
RIDGE: OKAY, SO YOU’VE GOT THREE BOYS
JESSE: RIGHT, THREE BOYS
RIDGE: AND WHAT HE DESCRIBED TO YOU IS THERE WAS TWO BICYCLES AND A
SKATEBOARD?
JESSE: YEAH (YES)
RIDGE: SO OBVIOUSLY ONE BICYCLE FOR ONE BOY, AND ONE BICYCLE FOR ONE
BOY, AND ONE SKATEBOARD FOR ONE BOY?
PAGE 4
002677
JESSE: YEAH (RIGHT) I GUESS THAT’S HOW IT WOULD GO
RIDGE: DID HE SAY WHERE HE SAW THEM?
JESSE: HE JUST SAYS HE WALKED INTO THE WOODS WITH JASON AND THEY
WERE THERE
RIDGE: OKAY
JESSE: NO HE DIDN’T HE DIDN’T SAY THAT THE BOYS WHERE THERE FIRST OR HE
DIDN’T SAY THEY WERE THERE FIRST, HE JUST SAID THAT HIM AND JASON WERE
IN THE WOODS AND THE BOYS WERE THERE
RIDGE: OKAY, DID HE MENTION ANYTHING ABOUT WHICH ONE OF THE BOYS
MAY HAVE HAD THE PENIS CUT OFF? ANY KIND OF PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION OF
ANYBODY?
JESSE: HE DIDN’T SAY, HE JUST SAID ONE OF THE BOYS GOT THEIR PENIS CUT
OFF
RIDGE: AND THAT’S WHAT HE SAID ONE OF THE BOYS?
JESSE: HE SAID ONE OF THE BOYS AND HE SAID, THE I DON’T KNOW IF THIS IS
TRUE, I MEAN I HAVE NO IDEA, HE JUST SAID THEY CUT THE BOYS UP AND THEY
DID IT AS A JOKE IT WAS THEY JUST DID IT TO DO IT AS A JOKE, HE SAID THEY
WERE GOING TO BURY, HE SAID THAT THEY, THEY HE SAID HE WAS NO WHERE
INVOLVED IN THIS, HE JUST SAW IT ALL HAPPEN, HE’S NEVER SAID THAT HE
KILLED THE BOYS OR HE HAD A HAND IN IT OR ANYTHING HE JUST SAID HE SAW
IT. AND HE SAID THAT THEY PLANNED TO BURY THE BOYS BUT THEY THOUGHT
IT WOULD TAKE TO LONG SO THEY JUST CUT THEM UP AS A JOKE AND LEFT
THEM IN THE DITCH TO BE FOUND.
RIDGE: LEFT THEM IN A DITCH?
JESSE: LEFT THEM IN A DITCH FULL OF WATER, HE SAID THEY FOUND, THEY
FOUND ONE, THEY SAID THEY FOUND BODIES BECAUSE THERE WAS A SHOE
FLOATING ON THE WATER AND THAT’S HOW THEY FOUND THE BOYS CAUSE
SOMEONE PULLED THEIR BODIES OUT.
RIDGE: OKAY, DID HE MENTION WHAT TIME OF THE DAY OR NIGHT THIS TOOK
PLACE, WAS IT DAYLIGHT WAS IT DARK? HAS HE SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THAT?
JESSE: HE SAID THE BOYS WERE FOUND SOME SOMEWHERE AROUND SIX
O’CLOCK, HE SAID THAT’S WHAT TIME THEY WERE FOUND BUT HE DIDN’T
MENTION WHAT TIME THIS WAS DONE
RIDGE: OH, HE DIDN’T?
PAGE 5
002678
JESSE: I DON’T REMEMBER HIM MENTIONING WHAT TIME IT WAS DONE
RIDGE: OKAY, HAS HE DESCRIBED TO YOU
JESSE: IT WAS SOMETHING AFTER SCHOOL THOUGH
RIDGE: SOMETIME AFTER SCHOOL, THAT IT WAS DONE?
JESSE: YEAH (YES) BECAUSE HE SAID THE BOYS, YEAH HE SAID IT WAS SOME, IT
WAS AFTER SCHOOL BECAUSE ALL THE BOYS HAD BEEN TO SCHOOL THAT DAY
AND HE SAID UH, I DON’T KNOW IF HE WAS TALKING ABOUT JASON OR ONE OF
THE LITTLE BOYS, BUT HE SAID SOMEONE GOT CHECKED OUT OF SCHOOL
EARLY, FOR SOME KIND OF APPOINTMENT OR SOMETHING, I DON’T KNOW BUT
HE SAID THEY THOUGHT THE BOYS WERE KILLED, HE SAID THAT JASON SAID
THAT THE BOYS WERE KILLED DURING SCHOOL. HE SAID THAT COULDN’T HAVE
BEEN TRUE BECAUSE ALL THE BOYS WERE IN SCHOOL AND THE PRINCIPAL’S
PRINCIPAL VOUCH FOR IT, THAT THEY WERE IN SCHOOL AT THAT TIME.
RIDGE: OKAY
FOGLEMAN: NOW DID YOU SAY THAT, THAT YOU UNDERSTAND THAT JASON
SAID THAT IT HAPPENED DURING SCHOOL, IS THAT WHAT YOU SAID?
JESSE: NO, DAMIEN SAID THAT JASON SAID IT HAPPENED DURING SCHOOL
FOGLEMAN: THAT JASON SAID IT HAPPENED DURING SCHOOL
JESSE: UH UM (YES)
FOGLEMAN: OKAY
JESSE: AND DAMIEN SAID IT WASN’T TRUE BECAUSE ALL THE BOYS WERE IN
SCHOOL
FOGLEMAN: OKAY
RIDGE: DID HE SAY WHAT BECAME OF THOSE BICYCLES OR THE SKATEBOARD?
JESSE: UN UM (NO) HE DIDN’T SAY ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT THE BIKES OR THE
SKATEBOARD
RIDGE: OKAY, HAS ANY MENTION BEEN TAKEN PLACE OR ANYTHING ABOUT
ANY OF THE BOYS HAVING BEEN SEXUAL ABUSED KIDS?
JESSE: HE SAID, THEY SAID THE BOYS WERE UH, THEY HAD SEX WITH THEM
ANAL,
PAGE 6
002679
RIDGE: UH UM (YES)
JESSE: HE SAID BUT THE AUTOPSY SHOWED THAT, THAT DIDN’T HAPPEN, HE
SAID THAT’S WHAT THE AUTOPSY SHOWED SAID THAT WAS A LIAR THAT DIDN’T
HAPPEN, BECAUSE HE SAID JASON SAID THAT THE BOYS WERE RAPED AFTER
THEY WERE KILLED AND HE SAID THAT IN THE AUTOPSY IT WOULD SHOW THAT,
THAT DIDN’T HAPPEN, THEY SAID, DAMIEN TOLD ME THAT JASON STATEMENT
WAS ALL SCREWED UP BECAUSE THE THINGS HE WAS SAYING WASN’T TRUE
DIDN’T TURN OUT TO BE THAT WAY.
RIDGE: OKAY, SO ONE MORE TIME FOR ME, HE TELLS YOU HOW MANY PEOPLE
ARE PRESENT?
JESSE: TODAY HE TOLD ME THAT JESSIE WAS THERE, THEN HE SAID ALL THE
OTHER TIME I THOUGHT YOU KNOW BEFORE TODAY I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST
HIM JASON AND HIS STEPFATHER THERE AND THAT BOY’S STEPFATHER
RIDGE: THEN TODAY HE TELLS YOU JESSIE WAS THERE ALSO?
JESSE: YEAH (YES) AND HE SAID THAT THE BOYS STEPFATHER GOT ON TV AND
HE SAID THEY DID AN INTERVIEW WITH HIM ON TV AND HE WAS SAYING THAT
DAMIEN WAS SUCH A ANIMAL AND HE DESERVED TO DIE FOR THIS CRIME. AND
HE SAID, HE SAID, I DIDN’T EVEN DO IT, HE THAT, THAT SON OF A BITCH DID IT
HE KILLED THOSE KIDS, I DIDN’T EVEN DO IT AND THEIR SAYING I DID IT. HE
SAID THAT THE POLICE TRIED, TRIED TO GET HIM TO ADMIT THAT HE HAD
MISSED HIS MEDICINE FOR A COUPLE OF DAYS, HE SAID THE POLICE SAID COME
ON JUST TELL US YOU SKIPPED YOUR MEDICINE FOR WHILE AND THEY WILL LET
YOU OUT, AND YOUR LIFE IS STRAIGHT AGAIN, AND HE SAID NO ITS NOT GOING
OUT LIKE THAT HE UH, HE’S NOT ADMITTING TO ANYTHING BECAUSE HE DIDN’T
DO ANYTHING, HE JUST SAY IT HAPPEN, AND THE NEXT DAY HE TOLD ME THAT I
DIDN’T SAY THAT HAPPENED I WAS, HE SAID I WAS ON THE PHONE TALKING TO
A GIRL NAMED HOLLY GEORGE, WHEN THIS ALL HAPPENED. AND THEN I ASK
WILL, I TOOK HIM OFF INTO HIS CELL AND SAID TELL ME SOMETHING, HE SAID
WHAT? I SAID, NOW JUST YESTERDAY YOU TOLD ME THAT YOU SAW THESE
BOYS DIE, YOU SAW THEN GET MURDERED, YEAH, THAT’S WHAT HE SID AND I
SAID WILL HOW COULD YOU BE ON THE PHONE TALKING TO A GIRL AND SEE
THESE, AND SEE THESE PEOPLE DIE AT THE SAME TIME? AND THEN HE SAID
THIS WAS THERE AND HE POINTED TO HIS FEET, AND HE SAID BUT THESE
WEREN’T, I SAID, YOUR NOT, THAT’S NOT RIGHT I SAID YOU TOLD ME YOU WERE
THERE, HE SAID BUT I WASN’T. THAT’S THE TWO STORIES HE TOLD ME.
RIDGE: OKAY, WILL HE TOLD YOU A STORY THAT HE WAS THERE?
JESSE: YEAH (YES) HE SAID HE WAS THERE
RIDGE: HE SAY THE BOYS MURDERED?
PAGE 7
002680
JESSE: HE SAW THEM DIE
RIDGE: HE SAW HOW THEY WERE MURDERED AND
JESSE: HE SAID HE SAID THEY WERE TIED UP AND THEY WERE BEATEN TO
DEATH AND STOMPED IN THE FACE AND KICKED UNTIL THEY WERE DEAD.
RIDGE: AND CUT UP?
JESSE: HE SAID THEY WERE CUT UP, I DON’T, I DON’T KNOW IF THAT WAS TRUE
OR NOT BUT HE SAID THEY WERE CUT UP
RIDGE: THAT’S WHAT HE SAYS.
FOGLEMAN: WHAT WAS THE LAST STORY HE TOLD YOU?
JESSE: THAT SOMETIMES HE, YOU KNOW HE SAID SOMETIMES YOU CAN BE IN
TWO PLACES AT ONE TIME, HE SAID THIS WAS THERE BUT THESE WEREN’T
FOGLEMAN: WHAT DID HE TELL YOU TODAY?
JESSE: HE JUST TOLD ME TODAY THAT ABOUT JESSIE, THAT’S ALL HE SAID
ABOUT IT TODAY
FOGLEMAN: BUT WHAT DID SAY, TELL ME WHAT HE SAID ABOUT JESSIE TODAY?
JESSE: HE TOLD THAT, NOW WE WERE IN THE CELL, THEIR CHARGE JESSIE WITH
3 COUNTS OF CAPITOL MURDER JUST LIKE THEIR CHARGING ME, AND I, AND
JESSIE DIDN’T EVEN DO ANYTHING HE WAS JUST THERE.
FOGLEMAN: ALRIGHT, EARLIER I THOUGHT YOU SAID THAT HE SAID THAT JESSIE
WAS JUST THERE JUST LIKE
JESSE: JUST LIKE HE WAS, THAT’S WHAT I MEAN
FOGLEMAN: RIGHT, BUT HE SAID TOLD YOU THAT TODAY?
JESSE: HE JUST TOLD ME ABOUT JESSIE BEING THERE TODAY I NEVER KNOW, I
NEVER KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT JESSIE UNTIL TODAY.
FOGLEMAN: ALRIGHT, NOW EARLIER YOU SAID HE SAID THEY WERE TIED UP
WITH
JESSE: WITH ROPE
FOGLEMAN: ROPE, ARE YOU SURE THAT, THAT’S WHAT HE SAID?
JESSE: THAT’S WHAT HE SAID YAH (YES)
PAGE 8
002681
FOGLEMAN: ALRIGHT, DID HE SAY ANYTHING ABOUT WHERE THEY GOT THE
ROPE OR
JESSE: HE DIDN’T SAY WHERE THEY GOT IT OR WHAT THEY DID WITH IT
AFTERWARDS OR ANYTHING, HE DIDN’T SAY NOTHING ABOUT THE BIKES OR
THE SKATEBOARD, HE JUST SAYS THEY, THESE KIDS WERE MURDERED AND
THEY WERE GOING TO BURY THEM FIRST, BUT THEN THEY CUT THEM OPEN AND
THREW THEM IN THE DITCH.
FOGLEMAN: DID HE SAY ANYTHING ABOUT WHETHER THEY, BEFORE THEY
MURDERED THEM THEY DID ANYTHING ELSE?
JESSE: HE DIDN’T SAY THAT, HE SAID HE WASN’T INVOLVED IN ANYTHING THEY
DID,
FOGLEMAN: THAT’S WHAT HE SAID?
JESSE: HE TOLD ME THAT THAT THE POLICE THOUGHT IT WAS PART OF SOME
SATANIC RITUAL AND HE SAID THAT WASN’T THAT WASN’T TRUE, HE SAID THAT
THE POLICE THOUGHT THAT WERE HUMAN SACRIFICE IN A SATANIC RITUAL BUT
IT WASN’T TRUE
RIDGE: DID HE SAY HE HAD EVER KNOWN ANY OF THESE LITTLE BOYS?
JESSE: HE SAID HE DIDN’T KNOW THE KIDS
RIDGE: DIDN’T KNOW THEM?
JESSE: HE SAID HE DIDN’T THEM, I SAID DO YOU KNOW THE LITTLE BOYS NAMES
AND HE SAID NO, I DON’T EVEN KNOW THEM
FOGLEMAN: BUT HE’S TOLD YOU THAT HE WASN’T THERE EXCEPT HIS MIND
WAS THERE?
JESSE: THAT’S THE SECOND STORY HE TOLD ME
FOGLEMAN: THAT’S THE SECOND STORY?
RIDGE: BUT THEN HE HAS TOLD YOU THAT JESSIE IS BEING CHARGED WITH THE
MURDER, AND ALL JESSIE DID WAS STAND THERE AND WATCH JUST LIKE HE
DID?
JESSE: HE SAID JESSIE, HE DIDN’T SAY STAND THERE AND WATCH HE SAID
JESSIE WAS JUST THERE
RIDGE: JUST LIKE HIM?
JESSE: JUST LIKE HIM
RIDGE: OKAY,
FOGLEMAN: AND WERE THOSE HIS WORDS?
PAGE 9
002682
JESSE: THOSE WERE HIS WORDS
RIDGE: IS THERE ANYTHING WE’VE LEFT OUT ABOUT WHAT HE’S TOLD YOU?
JESSE: I DON’T THINK SO
RIDGE: OKAY, YOU SAID HE DOES A LOT OF READING WHILE HE’S HERE, WHAT IS
IT HE IS READING?
JESSE: PAPERBACK BOOKS
RIDGE: DO YOU KNOW ABOUT SUBJECTS?
JESSE: NOT ABOUT WITCHCRAFT OR ANYTHING OR DEMONIC THINGS LIKE JUST
LIKE REGULAR YOU KNOW PAPERBACK BOOKS ABOUT LIKE HE SAYS HE LIKES
DRAGONS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, AND ABOUT KNIGHTS
RIDGE: YOU MENTION WHEN WE FIRST GOT STARTED HE HAS ALWAYS BEEN
CLOSE TO WITCHCRAFT OR SATANIC WORSHIP?
JESSE: HE SAID HE HAD A GIRLFRIEND ONE TIME THAT WAS REALLY INTO IT,
BUT HE’S NEVER BEEN INTO IT REALLY HIMSELF
FOGLEMAN: THAT’S WHAT HE TOLD YOU?
JESSE: YEAH (YES)
RIDGE: HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN HERE? (inaudible)
JESSE: THIS IS MY 12TH DAY
FOGLEMAN: YOUR 12TH DAY?
RIDGE: HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN IN A CELL WITH HIM?
JESSE: I WASN’T IN A CELL WITH UH, HIM EVER, I WAS IN A CELL WITH ANOTHER
GUY THAT WAS BROUGHT IN THE SAME NIGHT I WAS BROUGHT IN SO ME AND
HIM, WERE BLOCKING TOGETHER.
RIDGE: ALRIGHT, WILL IT I TAKE IT THAT THERE’S A ROOM THAT ADJOINING
YOUR CELLS IN WHICH YOU CAN BE TOGETHER AND TALK?
JESSE: I JUST WENT INTO HIS CELL ONE NIGHT HE WAS IN MY CELL TALKING
WHEN HE TOLD ME THE FIRST STORY, THEN THE SECOND STORY HE TOLD ME
WE WERE IN HIS CELL
FOGLEMAN: DO YOU KNOW IF HE’S TOLD ANYBODY ELSE?
JESSE: HE SAID, HE SAID, FELTED SO GOOD TO BE ABLE TO FINAL TELL, THE
FIRST STORY HE TOLD ME,
PAGE 10
002683
FOGLEMAN: UH UM (YES)
JESSE: AFTER HE TOLD ME THAT HE SAID IT FELT SO GOOD TO FINAL GET THIS
OFF MY CHEST HE SAID BECAUSE IT WAS LIKE A HUGE WEIGHT, HE SAID IT JUST
PULLED ME DOWN ALL THE TIME, HE SAID IT FEELS GOOD TO FINAL BE ABLE TO
SOMEBODY.
FOGLEMAN: SO YOU DON’T THINK HE’S TOLD ANYBODY ELSE?
JESSE: HE’S TOLD NOBODY, HE SAID HE’S TOLD NOBODY NOTHING
FOGLEMAN: AND NOBODY ELSE WAS EVER PRESENT WHEN YOU TALK?
JESSE: UN UM (NO) IF SOMEONE WALKED INTO THE CELL WE JUST SHUT UP AND
TALKED ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE UNTIL HE LEFT.
FOGLEMAN: WHAT WAS THE THING THAT HE SAID THE FIRST TIME MEANT HIM?
JESSE: HE SAID, DO YOU KNOW, I WENT INTO HIS CELL AND HE SAID DO YOU
KNOW WHO I AM? I SAID NO, HE SAID I’M THE ONE THAT WAS CHARGED WITH,
HE SAID YOU REMEMBER THESE 3 BOYS THAT WERE KILLED, 8 YEAR OLD BOYS, I
SAID YEAH (YES) I REMEMBER, I REMEMBER HEARING ABOUT IT, HE SAID THAT
WAS ME, HE SAID I’M THE ONE CHARGED WITH IT, AND LAUGHED.
FOGLEMAN: LAUGHED, DOES HE LAUGH ABOUT THIS QUITE OFTEN?
JESSE: I WOULDN’T SAY ABOUT THIS, BUT HE’LL JUST SIT THERE, HE’LL JUST SIT
THERE, HE’LL JUST YOU KNOW, HE’LL HE’LL TALK TO HIMSELF,
FOLGEMAN: DO YOU EVER EAR WHAT HE’S SAYING?
JESSE: IT’S WEIRD STUFF HE SAYS, LIKE THINGS LIKE I’M IN MY CHAINS IN MY
CELL, I’VE GOT MY OWN PRIVATE HELL, AND THINGS LIKE THAT, LIKE PINK
FLOYD SONGS, AND THING LIKE THAT I SAID WHERE DO YOU GET THIS STUFF DO
YOU JUST MAKE IT UP? NO THAT WAS PINK FLOYD, HE’S WEIRD I MEAN BUT
HE’S HE’S, I HAVE TO SAY I KNOW HOW MUCH YOU ALL JUST DON’T YOU ALL
PROBABLY JUST, JUST, YOU KNOW JUST DISLIKE THIS GUY BUT HE’S A LIKEABLE
PERSON
RIDGE: IN YOUR JUDGEMENT IS HE INTELLIGENT OR HE STUPID, I MEAN HE,
JESSE: HE’S INTELLIGENT
RIDGE: WHAT, WHERE DO YOU THINK HE WOULD RANK YOU THINK HE WOULD
RANK MORE INTELLIGENT THAN MOST PEOPLE, AVERAGE, OR BELOW?
JESSE: WELL, LET ME THINK ABOUT THIS
PAGE 11
002684
RIDGE: (inaudible) YOUR HOW OLD ARE YOU?
JESSE: I’M 19
RIDGE: YOU MEET A LOT OF PEOPLE, IF YOU WANTED TO GO AND ASK SOMEONE
FOR ADVISE, YOUR LOOKING AT HIM AND WHAT HE TELLS YOU AND WHAT YOU
KNOW ABOUT HIM, WOULD YOU THINK THAT ANY ADVISE HE GIVES YOU
WOULD BE PRETTY SMART? DO YOU THINK HE IS PRETTY WORLDLY?
JESSE: YEAH (YES) HE’S GIVEN ME SOME GOOD ADVISE
RIDGE: HE HAS WHAT KIND ADVISE HAS HE GIVEN YOU?
JESSE: (LAUGH LAUGH) OH LORD NOW WE GOING TO GET INTO MY STORIES,
(LAUGH)
RIDGE: WHAT’S HE TALKING ABOUT? IS IT SEX ORIENTED IS IT, IS IT
RELATIONSHIP ORIENTED?
JESSE: RELATIONSHIPS YEAH (YES)
RIDGE: OKAY, SO HE CONSIDERS HIMSELF TO BE PRETTY SMART IN HOW HE
DEALS WITH OTHER PEOPLE?
JESSE: I WON’T, NO, I WON’T SAY THAT, UH, I DON’T THINK HE’S MUCH INTO
HIMSELF, HE’S NOT REALLY A SELF PERSON IT’S LIKE HE’S, HE’S OBSERVANT
YOU KNOW
RIDGE: HE WATCHES?
JESSE: HE WATCHES
RIDGE: OKAY
JESSE: AND HE JUST
RIDGE: YOU SAY HE’LL READ A PAPERBACK
JESSE: IN ABOUT THREE DAYS, HE READS A LOT
RIDGE: HE READ A LOT
JESSE: A LOT (LAUGH) HE’S A LIKABLE PERSON, I MEAN HE SAYS HE DIDN’T KILL
THESE KIDS AND HE KNOWS WHO DID, AND I DON’T SEE WHY HE’S JUST NOT
TELLING
RIDGE: ALRIGHT, YOU’VE BEEN WITH HIM NOW FOR 12 DAYS DO YOU BELIEVE
HE KILLED THESE BOYS?
JESSE: UM UM (NO) I DON’T BELIEVE HE DID IT
RIDGE: WHO BELIEVE HE’S TELLING YOU THE TRUTH WHEN HE SAYS HE WAS
THERE?
PAGE 12
002685
JESSE: YEAH (YES) I BELIEVE HE WAS TELLING THE TRUTH BECAUSE HE HE SAID
HE WAS, YOU KNOW HE WON’T NEVER, HE WON’T EVER SAY IT AROUND
ANYBODY ELSE BUT ME.
RIDGE: OKAY,
JESSE: AND HE SAID IT FELT GOOD WHEN HE REALLY TOLD ME BECAUSE IT WAS
LIKE HUGE WEIGHT THAT HE JUST THROW OFF HIS CHEST
FOGLEMAN: TELL ME AGAIN HOW THE STEPFATHER CAME, CAME UP?
JESSE: HE JUST SAID THAT THE STEPFATHER WAS THERE AND HE BEAT HIS
STEPSON TO DEATH AND SOME OTHER BOY, HE SAID HE KILLED HIS OWN
STEPSON, I SAID WAS THAT HIS REAL FATHER, HE SAID NO IT WAS HIS
STEPFATHER AND I CAN KINDA UNDERSTAND WHAT MOST STEPFATHERS DON’T
LIKE THEIR STEPSONS AND VICE VERSA YOU KNOW
FOGLEMAN: DID HE SAY HOW THE STEPFATHER CAME TO BE THERE?
JESSE: NO, HE JUST SAID THAT THE STEPFATHER BEAT HIS STEPSON TO DEATH,
AND SOME OTHER BOY AND HU, HE SAID THE STEPFATHER GOT ON TV AND SAID
THAT HE WAS VICIOUS SAID THAT DAMIEN WAS A VICIOUS ANIMAL AND THAT
HE SHOULD, HE SHOULD BE KILLED FOR WHAT HE’S DONE, AND HE SAID HE
KNOWS THAT HE’S THE ONE THAT DID IT, IN THE FIRST PLACE. I SAID WHY
DON’T YOU JUST TELL THEM THAT HE DID IT, I SAID YOU, MAYBE YOU CAN GET
OUT YOU KNOW, HE SAID I DON’T KNOW, HE JUST SHRUG HIS SHOULDERS THE
ALL THE TIME. I DON’T KNOW.
FOGLEMAN: WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO TAKE A POLYGRAPH?
JESSE: YEAH (YES) YEAH I’M NOT LYING ABOUT ANYTHING I MEAN LOOK AT ME
IN THE FACE YOU CAN LIKE AT ME TELL YOU BLUE IN THE FACE, I’M NOT LYING,
I HADN’T, I HAVE NOTHING TO LIE ABOUT, I’M NOT ON TRIAL I DIDN’T KILL
THESE BOYS, I HAVE NOTHING TO LIE ABOUT, I JUST KNOW WHAT HE’S TOLD ME,
I’LL TAKE A POLYGRAPH
RIDGE: DO YOU BELIEVE WHAT HE’S TOLD YOU?
JESSE: YEAH (YES) I BELIEVE HIM, I BELIEVE, I BELIEVE
RIDGE: DO YOU BELIEVE THIS PART ABOUT
JESSE: I BELIEVE THERE’S MORE TO IT THAN HE’S SAYING BECAUSE IF THERE
WASN’T HE WOULD OF WENT AHEAD TOLD EVERYBODY WHAT, TOLD THE
POLICE WHAT HE KNEW ABOUT THE STEPFATHER AND EVERYTHING ELSE,
THERE’S SOMETHING HE’S HOLDING BACK, THERE’S GOT TO BE SOMETHING
HE’S HOLDING BACK SO YOU KNOW I DON’T
PAGE 13
002686
RIDGE: DO YOU BELIEVE WHAT HE’S TOLD YOU?
JESSE: I DON’T BELIEVE KILLED, I DON’T BELIEVE HE KILLED THESE KIDS BUT,
BUT I BELIEVE HE WAS SOMEWHERE INVOLVED IN IT.
RIDGE: OKAY
JESSE: SOMEHOW, SOMEWAY, HE WAS INVOLVED
RIDGE: USE A LITTLE LOGIC HER FOR ME, HE TOLD YOU THAT HIS MIND CAN BE
IN TWO DIFFERENT PLACES AT ONCE
JESSE: YEAH (YES)
RIDGE: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT?
JESSE: NO
RIDGE: DO YOU THINK THAT’S JUST HIM TRYING TO MAKE UP HIS MIND AS TO
WHAT HE’S GOING TO TELL YOU AND WHAT HE’S NOT GOING TO TELL YOU?
JESSE: POSSIBLE
RIDGE: OKAY,
JESSE: POSSIBLE
FOGLEMAN: CAN YOU THINK OF ANYTHING ELSE WE NEED TO ASK AT THIS
POINT?
FOGLEMAN: IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU CAN THINK OF THAT HE TOLD YOU
THAT WE HADN’T ASK ABOUT, I MEAN ANYTHING AT ALL BEFORE WHEN I ASK
YOU THAT, BEFORE WE WENT ON TAPE YOU MENTION ABOUT THE BICYCLES
AND SKATEBOARD, ANYTHING ELSE AT ALL THAT YOU CAN THINK OF AND
PLEASE IF READ SOMETHING ABOUT THIS PUT THAT OUT OF YOUR MIND, ALL
WE WANT TO KNOW IS THERE ANYTHING HE’S TOLD YOU?
JESSE: I HAVEN’T READ ANYTHING, I’VE SEEN THE PICTURES IN THE PAPER AND
THAT’S IT, I HAVEN’T READ ANYTHING.
FOGLEMAN: JUST THINK REAL HARD HE THERE’S ANYTHING ELSE RELATED TO
THIS AT ALL?
JESSE: THAT’S ALL I KNOW, I DON’T THINK, YOU KNOW I REALLY DON’T THINK
THAT HE KILLED THESE BOYS, BUT THERE’S SOMETHING, THERE’S SOMETHING
THERE THAT’S JUST NOT COMING TO LIGHT, THAT HE KNOWS ABOUT THIS CASE
FOGLEMAN: DESCRIBE HAVE YOU SEEN ANY OF THE NEWS REPORTS ON TV
ABOUT THIS?
PAGE 14
02687
JESSE: UN UN (NO) I NEVER GOT A CHANCE TO WATCH TV I WAS ALWAYS
WORKING, I MEAN I WORKED ALL THE TIME
FOGLEMAN: WHAT KIND OF WORK DO YOU DO?
JESSE: I WORKED AT THE FLAMING RESTAURANT IN BRINKLY I WORKED OVER
FORTY HOURS A WEEK AND OTHER TIME I WAS JUST OUT RIDING IN MY CAR,
AND WHEN IT CLOSED DOWN, I WENT RIGHT TO WORK AT WAFFLE HOUSE, YOU
KNOW I WAS OFFERED A JOB THERE
RIDGE: AS A 19 YOA BOY YOU DON’T REALLY GET INTO SITTING AROUND
WASTING YOUR TIME WATCHING TV OR READING NEWSPAPER. GOSSIP ABOUT
IT THEY JUST SAID HE LOOK AT THOSE THREE BOYS IN THE PAPER AND THAT’S
THE ONLY THING I EVER HEARD ABOUT IT.
FOGLEMAN: ALRIGHT, TELL ME AGAIN THIS THING ABOUT THE STEPFATHER IS
ON MY MIND, I WANT YOU TO TELL ME, I WANT YOU TO THINK, JUST SHUT
EVERYTHING ELSE OUT AND I WANT YOU TO RE-CREATE IN YOUR MIND, THE
CONVERSATION THAT YOU ALL WHERE HE SAYS ABOUT THE STEPFATHER, AND I
WANT TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT HE SAYS TO THE BEST OF YOU ABILITY, FIRST
OFF WHEN WAS THIS CONVERSATION?
JESSE: ABOUT THE STEPFATHER?
FOGLEMAN: UM UH (YES)
JESSE: THE FIRST THAT STORY WE HAD
FOGLEMAN: OKAY, HOW LONG AGO, AFTER YOU’VE BEEN IN JAIL HOW LONG
WAS IT?
JESSE: ABOUT A LITTLE BIT
FOGLEMAN: OR WAS IT HALF WAY, IT’S BEEN 12 DAYS, BUT IT WAS 6 DAYS AGO,
HAD YOU BEEN IN 6 DAYS, OR 3 DAYS
JESSE: NO, I WOULD SAY IT WAS ABOUT, AT THE LAST 4 NIGHTS AGO
FOGLEMAN: FOUR NIGHTS OKAY, GO AHEAD
JESSE: IT WAS AT NIGHT TIME WHEN WE WERE TALKING AND IT WAS REAL LATE
FOGLEMAN: OKAY, SHUT EVERYTHING ELSE OUT AND CONCENTRATE ON THAT
CONVERSATION
JESSE: HE SAID THAT HE WAS CROUCHED DOWN ON THE FLOOR RIGHT NEXT TO
MY BUNK
FOGLEMAN: UN UM
PAGE 15
02688
JESSE: AND HE SAID THAT HE SAID HE SHOOK, HE WAS SHAKING HIS HEAD
WHEN HE WAS TALKING HE UH, THE STEPFATHER SAID HE SAID THERE’S ONE OF
THE BOYS STEPFATHER THAT SAYS THAT I WAS JUST VICIOUS ANIMAL, I WAS
TALKING THE WAY HE WAS TALKING
FOGLEMAN: RIGHT
JESSE: HE SAID I WAS THIS VICIOUS ANIMAL AND THAT I KILLED THESE BOYS
AND HE KNOWS THAT’S NOT TRUE, HE KNOWS THAT HE’S THE ONE THAT KILLED
THEM, AND HE WAS ON TV TALKING ABOUT ME AND JUST RUNNING MY NAME IN
THE GROUND, HE SAID, AND HE KNOWS HE’S THE ONE THAT DID IT. HE STARTED
GETTING HOSTILE AS HE GOT FURTHER INTO THAT CONVERSATION ABOUT THE
STEPFATHER
RIDGE: HOSTILE
JESSE: HE STARTED LIKE GETTING MAD BECAUSE HE WAS BEING LOCKED UP
FOR SOMETHING HE DIDN’T DO
RIDGE: WHAT WAS HE DOING TO SHOW HIMSELF AS HOSTILE?
JESSE: HE WAS LIKE DOING THIS WITH HIS HEAD
RIDGE: SHAKING HIS HEAD
JESSE: YEAH (YES)
RIDGE: DOUBLING UP HIS FIST OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT?
JESSE: NO, HE DIDN’T DO ANYTHING LIKE THAT, IT WAS JUST A FACE FACIAL
REMARKS HE WAS MAKING
FOGLEMAN: WHEN HE SAID THIS ABOUT THE STEPFATHER DID YOU SAY
ANYTHING TO HIM?
JESSE: I SAID WHY DON’T YOU TELL THEM, WHY DON’T YOU TELL THEM THAT
HE DID IT
FOGLEMAN: YOU DIDN’T ASK HIM HOW HE KNEW THAT HE HAD DONE IT THE
STEPFATHER HAD DONE IT?
JESSE: HE SAID HE WAS THERE I DIDN’T REALLY (inaudible)
FOGLEMAN: ALRIGHT, ALRIGHT, WHEN DID, WAS THE FIRST TIME THE
STEPFATHER CAME INTO ANY CONVERSATION, WAS IT THAT NIGHT THAT YOUR
TALKING ABOUT?
JESSE: UN UM (YES)
FOGLEMAN: OKAY, WILL WHAT YOU JUST TOLD US IS THAT HE SQUATTED DOWN
BY YOUR BUNK AND ALL THE SUDDEN HE STARTS TALKING ABOUT STEPFATHER
AND HOW HE’S RUNNING HIS NAME IN THE
PAGE 16
002689
FOGLEMAN: GROUND SAYING THIS ABOUT HIM
JESSE: THIS WAS INTO THE CONVERSATION, THIS IS ON INTO THE
CONVERSATION, CAUSE HE TOLD THAT JASON KILLED ONE OF THE BOYS, WILL I
SAID WHO KILLED THE OTHER 2 BOYS, HE SAID ONE OF THE BOYS
STEPFATHER’S, THAT’S HOW WE GOT ON TO THE CONVERSATION ABOUT THE
STEPFATHER ALRIGHT.
FOGLEMAN: WHAT ELSE DID HE SAY AFTER HE SAID ON OF THE BOYS
STEPFATHERS
JESSE: HE SAID THAT HIS GUY, I SAID DO YOU KNOW LAST NAME, HE SAID I
THINK IT WAS SOMETHING LIKE BRANCH, LIKE THAT I SAID BRANCH HE SAID HE
JUST SHOOK HIS HEAD, I SAID WELL YOU KNOW HE SAID THIS GUY GOT ON TV
ON AN INTERVIEW ON THE NEWS OR SOMETHING, SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE
AND HE SAID THAT HE WAS SAYING THAT OH THIS VICIOUS ANIMAL AND THAT I
NEEDED TO DIE FOR WHAT, WHAT I’VE DONE, AND I
RIDGE: HOW DID HE DESCRIBE THAT STEPFATHER?
JESSE: HE SAID HE HAD LONG BLONDE HAIR AND PONYTAIL
RIDGE: OKAY
FOGLEMAN: DID HE SAY HOW THE BOYS GOT IN THE WATER?
JESSE: HE SID THEY, HE SAID THEY HE DIDN’T SAY WHO
FOGLEMAN: HE JUST SAID THEY PUT THEM IN THE WATER
JESSE: HE SAID THEY THROUGH THE BODIES AFTER THEY CUT THEM UP, I DON’T
KNOW IF THEY WERE CUT UP OR NOT
THE TIME IS 3:58 P M WE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION JUST
FLIPPED THE TAPE OVER.
RIDGE: HE NEVER MENTION STATE OF DRESS OR UNDRESS OF ANY OF THE
VICTIMS?
JESSE: NO
RIDGE: DID HE MENTION TO YOU ABOUT ANY SEXUAL ACTS THAT MAY HAVE
BEEN PERFORMED ON ANY OF THE KIDS?
JESSE: HE SAYS THAT JASON SAID IN A STATEMENT THAT THE BOYS WERE
RAPED ANAL AND HE SAID THAT THE AUTOPSY’S PROVED THAT, THAT DIDN’T
HAPPEN HE SAID THAT WAS A INCONSISTENCIES IN JASON’S STATEMENT HE
SAID THAT JASON’S STATEMENT WAS ALL SCREWED UP BECAUSE OF THE
THINGS THAT THEY SAID HAPPENED DIDN’T HAPPEN BUT HE
RIDGE: DID HE SAY HOW HE KNEW THEY DIDN’T HAPPEN?
PAGE 17
002690
JESSE: UM UM (NO)
RIDGE: OKAY, HAVE YOU GOT ANYTHING FURTHER YOU WANT TO ADD AT THIS
POINT JOHN?
FOGLEMAN:
JESSE: HE JUST, HE JUST KEPT SAYING HE DIDN’T KILL THEM, HE DIDN’T DO IT,
HE JUST SAY IT HAPPEN
RIDGE: HE WAS THERE?
JESSE: HE SAID, HE DID SAY THAT HE, THAT HE DIDN’T KNOW WHAT TO DO, HE
HAD NO IDEA WHAT TO DO
RIDGE: ONE THING WAS MENTION EARLIER THAT JASON AND DAMIEN HAD, A
CONVERSATION
JESSE: YEAH (YES)
RIDGE: WHEN WAS THAT CONVERSATION SUPPOSE TO OF HAVE TAKEN PLACE
JESSE: HE SAID TWO WEEKS BEFORE THE MURDERS
RIDGE: OKAY, WHAT WAS SAID ABOUT THAT CONVERSATION?
JESSE: HE SAID THAT JASON TOLD HIM THAT IF THE POLICE COME BY HIS HOUSE
ASKING WHO DID IT, HE WAS GOING TO ADMIT TO IT AND SAY YEAH I DID IT.
RIDGE: OKAY, NOW THIS IS TWO WEEKS PRIOR TO THE MURDERS, BEFORE THE
MURDERS, SO JASON WAS TELLING DAMIEN HE WAS GOING TO DO IT?
JESSE: YEAH (YES) AND DAMIEN TOLD ME THAT HE THOUGHT HE WAS JUST
JOKING, HE DIDN’T THINK HE WAS SERIOUS
RIDGE: OKAY
JESSE: HE SAID IF JASON WAS PUT IN A CELL HE, HE HURT HIM, HE SAID BECAUSE
THE ONLY REASON WHY, ONLY REASON WHY HE’S IN JAIL NOW IS BECAUSE OF
JASON’S STATEMENT, I DON’T KNOW WHAT WAS IN IT, HE DIDN’T SAY WHAT
WAS IN HIS STATEMENT I DON’T THINK HE KNOWS, BUT HE SAID THE ONLY
REASONS WHY HE’S IN JAIL NOW IS BECAUSE OF JASON’S STATEMENT, AND HE
HASN’T DONE ANYTHING, AND HE SHOULDN’T BE CHARGED WITH CAUSE HE
DIDN’T DO ANYTHING, HE JUST SAY IT HAPPEN, HE TOLD ME HE COULDN’T DO
ANYTHING HE TOLD ME HE JUST STOOD THERE, I MEAN IF YOU WERE THERE
AND YOU WERE DAMIEN WHAT WOULD YOU DO? TELL THEM TO STOP, WHAT
WOULD YOU DO?
RIDGE: THAT’S WHAT DAMIEN IS TELLING YOU?
PAGE 18
002691
JESSE: THIS IS, THIS IS I’M THINKING DAMIEN HE SAID THERE WAS NOTHING HE
COULD DO, HE JUST STOOD THERE
RIDGE: SO IN YOUR OPINION DAMIEN IS TRYING TO JUSTIFY WHY HE IS JUST
STANDING THERE?
JESSE: YEAH (YES)
RIDGE: OKAY,
FOGLEMAN: NOW I DON’T REMEMBER IF WE GOT THIS ON HERE WHAT, YOU SAID
SOMETHING ABOUT EARLIER ABOUT SCHOOL AND SOMETHING BEING
MENTIONED ABOUT SCHOOL?
JESSE: HE SAID THAT SOMEBODY, I’M, I DON’T KNOW IF IT WAS ONE OF THE KIDS
OR JASON HE SAID BUT SOMEONE GOT CHECKED OUT OF SCHOOL EARLY FOR A
APPOINTMENT OF SOME KIND
FOGLEMAN: HOW DID THAT COME UP IN THE CONVERSATION?
JESSE: IT CAME UP WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE BOYS GETTING KILLED,
THERE AT 12 O’CLOCK, HE SAID THAT JASON SAID THE BOYS WERE KILLED AT 12
O’CLOCK
FOGLEMAN: UM UM (YES)
JESSE: IN THE AFTERNOON HE SAID BUT THAT COULDN’T HAVE BEEN BECAUSE
THE BOYS WERE IN SCHOOL DURING THAT TIME AND THE PRINCIPAL VOUCHED
FOR THAT AND
RIDGE: WHICH BOYS IS HE TALKING ABOUT?
JESSE: THE 3, EIGHT YEAR OLD BOYS
RIDGE: OKAY
JESSE: AND HE SAID, HE SAID YEAH HE TOLD ME THAT ONE OF THE BOYS MOM’S
CHECKED OUT ONE OF THE BOYS FOR A APPOINTMENT SO IT WAS OBVIOUS ONE
OF THE EIGHT YEAR OLD BOYS
RIDGE: OKAY, THIS IS WHAT DAMIEN IS TELLING YOU?
JESSE: YEAH (YES)
RIDGE: ALRIGHT, WHAT BROUGHT ON THAT CONVERSATION? TALKING ABOUT
THE STATEMENT THAT THIS OTHER YOUNG MAN HAS GIVEN?
JESSE: UH UM (YES)
RIDGE: OKAY, DID HE SAY THAT STATEMENT WAS PARTIALLY TRUE?
PAGE 19
002692
JESSE: HE DIDN’T SAY, HE JUST SAID THAT, THE BOYS COULDN’T OF BEEN
KILLED AT 12 O’CLOCK BECAUSE THEY WERE STILL IN SCHOOL
RIDGE: OKAY, BUT HE POINTED OUT TO YOU SOME INCONSISTENCIES IN THAT
STATEMENT WITH TRUE FACTS?
JESSE: UM UM (YES)
RIDGE: AND HE’S TELLING YOU WHAT THE TRUE FACTS WERE OR PART OF WHAT
THE TRUE FACTS WERE?
JESSE: AS FAR AS I CAN SAY YEAH (YES)
RIDGE: OKAY,
FOGLEMAN: I DON’T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE.
RIDGE: ALRIGHT I’M GOING TO CONCLUDE THIS INTERVIEW THE TIME IS 4:04 PM.
